Per the urging of Sherry I have decided to update my blog (man I'm updating a lot right now) with a brief back and forth I had on a different blog. Basically I recently came across the Friendly Atheist blog that wrote about the prayer rug that I received a few months ago and wrote my own post on it. I read the atheist's post and it was just sad seeing that exactly what bothered me about it was so obviously happening. I then wrote a short comment hoping to limit the ridicule of Christianity.
My First Comment (Brian)
I’m a Christian and I received the exact same package. I can assure you that they don’t represent Christianity and it is nothing more than a scam. I actually wrote my own blog condemning it and the annoyance you feel is all the greater for myself as it is being done in the name of Christ…it makes me sick to my stomach and deeply saddened. I only ask that everyone remember that just because someone claims to be Christian doesn’t mean they represent Christianity in anyway.
This produced a couple of challenges to me from their readers...
HoverFrog Response
Brian said:I can assure you that they don’t represent Christianity
If it’s scammers masquerading as a church then get the law involved and stamp it out. If it is a church or even if it is Christians then it represents Christianity. It may be a brand of Christianity that you hate but anyone who claims to be a Christian does represents Christianity and builds up the stereotype.
Brian E Response (not me...coincidence)
@Brian - Exactly what tenets of Christianity are they violating? Yes, they’re using an optical illusion to ‘fool’ people, but Christianity has been using lies, deceit, fear, guilt and even torture on its members for centuries. As far as I’m concerned, this church is par for the course as far as Christianity goes.
The first comment I wasn't going to respond to because it actually doesn't make sense. It would like if I were an atheist going around saying there is a god, could some atheist group sue me for not properly representing atheism...thus no use to respond. However the second comment was one that I couldn't let slide. Thus I wrote the following response.
My Second Comment (Brian)
@Brian E - First, one of the 10 commandments says to not give false testimony. Thus if they are making a claim that this prayer rug (which itself has no scriptural logic behind it) can do something supernatural when it obviously does not, that person is giving false testimony. Thus my claim, that this is nothing but a scam and outside of Christianity, is quite obvious.
However, I would like to also point out the often confused situation that Christianity is hypocritical since it says you shouldn’t lie, but everyone (Christians included) do lie (or fill in any other sin). I guess the first thing to say is, yes all Christians are hypocrites…we all fail to do what Christianity says we are to do, but that isn’t the point of Christianity. Christianity is the acknowledging that we are sinful and thus asking and receiving forgiveness through Christ Jesus. I know writing that on an atheistic blog is probably just going to produce more ridicule, but that is the core belief of Christianity. For that reason those that claim to be Christian are actually stating that they are not perfect, sinful, and in need of forgiveness. Christianity offers two ways to heaven; (1) be perfect or (2) ask for forgiveness through Jesus. FYI – I don’t know anyone that is trying route (1) currently.
Now that you have challenged my statement let me challenge you’re logic. If I were to go on a killing spree in the name of atheism (one could picture me saying that since we are merely products of evolution it is vital to weed out the weak and strengthen our specie), would my actions then define atheistic principles? I certainly won’t hold you responsible for every action that someone holding to your beliefs does, so why do you do the same to me. Shouldn’t Christianity, atheism, and any other religion (atheism is a religion in the sense that it is a set of beliefs) only be held accountable for what the tenets of that faith claim and not the actions of those that claim to hold those beliefs?
Unfortunately there hasn't been any response to my challenge after waiting a couple days, but I'll keep an eye on it to see if Brian E has a good answer for it. From my experience with reading various arguments against religion (or Christianity specifically) from atheists, it almost always hinges its arguments on the atrocities performed in the name of Christianity or whatever religion they are arguing against. However, its important to always point out to them that its inappropriate to argue based on the misguided actions of some followers (or just non-believers using the name), but should only be argued based on what is claimed by the religion. As G.K. Chesterton said "The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting. It has been found difficult and left untried."
If it is appropriate to judge a belief system on the atrocities performed in the name of that belief then once again atheism is in trouble. We always hear how bad things like the Crusades, Salem Witch Trials, and the Spanish Inquisition were, but no one ever goes and compares these to actions performed in the name of atheism. So below is a quick comparison to give everyone perspective when challenged by an atheism in this way.
Crusades - 10,000 to 100,000 killed (over nearly 200 years)
Salem Witch Trials - 25 killed
Spanish Inquisition - ~2,000 killed from 1476 and 1834 (over 350 years)
Ok, these are bad, but when you compare it to the more than 100 million killed by just 3 atheists (Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, and Mao Zedong) these numbers are negligible. I suppose the third and final argument that should be made when talking with an atheist about this stuff is to ask them how they can even claim that murder is wrong. Remember, Christians and other religions have some kind of moral law that was received from a greater being, but atheism as no right to say that anything is either right or wrong. So if you don't feel like arguing when confronted with a question about the atrocities of Christianity, just ask them why they were wrong according to atheistic principles.
